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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
395
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I have mentioned this numerous times, and each time people look at me like I'm stupid. It seems stupid to me pre 1.7 and hold very true post 1.7.
AIMING
Particularly, the difference between a Maddie and a Gunnlogi.
As I've mentioned before, the Maddie can aim their turret all the way down, the gunnlogi cannot. So for example, infantry are safe against a blaster gunnlogi if they stand in an area like 5 meters around the tank. Though try the same thing against a Maddie and you're gonna have a bad time.
I've been given numerous reasons for this, yet from a balance standpoint, it just does not makes sense.
So pre 1.7, the way I was told by numerous people, gunnlogis were supposed to be ranged attackers, maddie CQC. So therefore, a maddie could aim down to the ground and gunnlogi could aim only down level with his tank. That kinda makes sense, yet back then a gunnlogi had weaker speed, EHP, and resists, compared to the maddie. And a gunnlogi really had no advantage to range. It never made sense to me.
Now we get this new iteration of tanks, and from what I'm to understand, a maddie is more the stand your ground tank, and the gunnlogi is a hit and run. Both are effective in CQC and Long distance combat, fit dependent. So the way I see it now, a gunnlogi is slightly gimped in CQC when compared to a maddie, against infantry. Additionally, when fighting a maddie CQC, the maddie holds a huge advantage. Maybe not on flat terrain, but slight bumps and hills in the terrain make it impossible to aim at a maddie at all, all the while they can easily maintain target.
Yesterday, I fully realized how devastating this can be. A maddie engaged me in some very rough terrain. Didn't think anything of it until I realized my turret could not come close to aiming at him. He was 25 to 50 meters out. The slight up and down inclines, coupled with the fact that my turret will not go down further than level with my tank, meant the entire time I was aiming at the sky.
So a gunnlogi has to be on either a downward incline to see anything like 2 meters below him, or it needs to stick to flat terrain and maintain a bit of distance. I would like a Dev explanation on this, tired of player assumptions on why you continue this!
It's a freaking tank, why gimp one and not the other like this? There is no excuse as far as I'm concerned for continuing this. Both tanks either operate CQC or Range, depending on your fit. The differences between the 2 tanks now hinges on the duration of hardeners, or the use of damage mods.
Either both tanks aim the same, or blasters are the only thing allowed to aim all the way down for both tanks. While making the other 2 turret types go only so far as level.
Imagine if the logi suit could not aim all the way down yet the assault suit could. (someone come up with a better analogy, work is calling to me, ugh!)
Would appreciate a Dev response for a reason behind it, or that a CPM would mention this to them for me.
Thanks much!
(edit)
One more thing, why do tanks have to struggle with slight, LONG inclines. I'll make it like part way up and start sliding, yet I can climb it no problem as an infantry man. What is up with that!
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
395
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Chaos Scum wrote:Do you want your turret to magically pass through your chassis? The body shape of the madrugar allows better aiming.
As far as tank fights it sounds like you are relatively new. Try practicing on infantry. You will get the hang of using the slightest incline to aim down. Crying wont help you beat a madrugar but terrain will.
One more thing. I don't hear you asking for the madrugars inability to turn at a reasonable speed to be explained. Each Tank has its plusses and minuses. After tanking for a week you should have some idea of their capabilities.
Hah, no brother, been driving gunnlogis since May. I am very aware of the strengths and weakness of the tanks. As for the better turning ability of the gunnlogi, a maddie has a much faster top speed in a straight line. That is the other side of the balance stick.
But this is why I'm not asking for player assumptions on the matter. I've already heard a range of things from players on why this is they way it is.
And if you ever paid attention to a gunnlogi, you would realize that the turret stops well before it comes close to the chassis. I suspect there is a reason for this, but I would really like to hear a response from someone that truly understands the reasoning behind this.
Edit
I can't believe someone called me a noob! haha
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
396
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 20:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Righteous Rage wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Chaos Scum wrote:Do you want your turret to magically pass through your chassis? The body shape of the madrugar allows better aiming.
As far as tank fights it sounds like you are relatively new. Try practicing on infantry. You will get the hang of using the slightest incline to aim down. Crying wont help you beat a madrugar but terrain will.
One more thing. I don't hear you asking for the madrugars inability to turn at a reasonable speed to be explained. Each Tank has its plusses and minuses. After tanking for a week you should have some idea of their capabilities. Hah, no brother, been driving gunnlogis since May. I am very aware of the strengths and weakness of the tanks. As for the better turning ability of the gunnlogi, a maddie has a much faster top speed in a straight line. That is the other side of the balance stick. But this is why I'm not asking for player assumptions on the matter. I've already heard a range of things from players on why this is they way it is. And if you ever paid attention to a gunnlogi, you would realize that the turret stops well before it comes close to the chassis. I suspect there is a reason for this, but I would really like to hear a response from someone that truly understands the reasoning behind this. Edit I can't believe someone called me a noob! haha Before they took away the mass of our turrets I used to use the fast back on the madrugar to scoop up tanks and fire my turret directly into their undercarriage. Orthodox tanking bores me. Tanking has changed, you are a newb. I think the more even ground that every stands upon now forces Old Tankers to call out railguns, because the redline never changes.
People be crazy. I went on to destroy 10 tanks in my PC's after that.
Scrub huh
hahah
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
396
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 20:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Should all have the same level of depression tbh, don't let the Gunnlogi aim down any further but limit the madrugar. If Infantry want to rush a tank with R.Es and the tank is too stubborn and doesn't want to move, it should burn, not turn, aim down and shoot the persons foot off.
Thanks, I don't feel like a crazy person suggesting something insane now.
LoL
And gun depression, that's the word I was "aiming" for.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
399
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 21:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Gunnlogi (and Sica) is still OP compared to the Maddy fitting wise.
That is what I've thought, but here recently I've come across some beast ass maddies. They are making me question if the shield version is really OP.
The instances I can remember, I ran a double hardener and booster on my rails. Must have been running doubles hardeners themselves, because they are able to rep though a lot of my damage. Like a whole clip worth!
Hopefully, adding in the rest of the missing mods, maybe some new ones, will bring a lot more complexity to the current fits. As it is now, the go to fits involve lots of hardeners or lots of damage mods.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
399
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 21:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Chaos Scum wrote:Do you want your turret to magically pass through your chassis? The body shape of the madrugar allows better aiming.
As far as tank fights it sounds like you are relatively new. Try practicing on infantry. You will get the hang of using the slightest incline to aim down. Crying wont help you beat a madrugar but terrain will.
One more thing. I don't hear you asking for the madrugars inability to turn at a reasonable speed to be explained. Each Tank has its plusses and minuses. After tanking for a week you should have some idea of their capabilities. Tebu was tanking when you were in the Academy.
Fatal Absolution huh!
Come over to Dem Dirty Boyz why don't ya!
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
399
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 21:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:You raise an interesting point that I haven't really thought about, but I've been using both types for so long I probably am just used to it. I don't doubt you though.
Do you think this might be an intentional mechanic to balance against the fact that the Gunnlogi is significantly more maneuverable than the Madrugar in terms of acceleration and turning radius?
No, It has been with tanks since I started in May. I think maybe it is something that simply hasn't been addressed enough. Like I said, the old thought was the gunnlogi was meant for distance combat, whereas the maddie was your CQC. This doesn't hold true any longer though (and still was just another gimp added on to the gunnlogi back in the day, among many).
From what I'm to understand, the gunnlogi, being hit and run, is more maneuverable with better acceleration, but a lower top speed.
The maddie, to be honest, could be a bit more maneuverable. Kinda like bricks atm. But a Maddie does have a higher top end speed, not to mention utility slots to accommodate a injector and whatever other goodies you want. Many maddies have escaped me because of this.
If you want utility on a gunnlogi, you have to sacrifice tank for said utility mod.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
399
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 22:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Yes there is a sever lack of low slot utilities, and I honestly believe we will see passive versions of high slot utility modules in the next vehicle expansion (Passive Damage Mods, Torque Boosters, Scan Enhancers). But for right now you're right, you're lacking in utility. The Gunnlogi does however have much better fitting potential in terms of resources, so it does have that advantage.
I like the difference in turning radius between the Gunnlogi and Madrugar, but the Madrugars turn radius IS pretty bad, maybe make it slightly better, but not as good as the Gunnlogi.
As for the turret issue, not sure how I feel about it. I need to get in there and test it out to see how bad it is before I decide if it should be addressed or not.
Turret depression was what I was aiming for. When coming over a hill, since the gunnlogi's turret only goes down to level with the tank, your tank must crest the top and rest at a downward angle, to be able to shoot anything at a lower elevation relative to you.
Test it out! Lemme know what ya think.
Nuff Said
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